Episode 2: Authority Without Fear

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Episode 2: Authority Without Fear

Lauren explores how authority impacts the nervous system and why regulated leadership builds safety, trust, and sustainable workplace culture.

In this episode, Lauren continues the Leading Under Pressure series by exploring how authority and power shape the nervous system and why leadership is never neutral. She unpacks how fear based practices drive compliance, silence, and burnout, while regulated authority builds safety, clarity, and trust.

This episode offers insight into shifting from control to connection, showing how presence, tone, and timing shape safety more than policy. Lauren closes with a simple reminder to pause before you release and lead with intention.

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Transcript:

Lauren Spigelmyer: Alright, if you've been listening, we introduced a new series. This series is called Leading Under Pressure, and it's how to become a more regulated leader so that you can make better decisions in high-stress systems. So, the work that Jessica and I do with Five Ives is working with organizations or entities that are more trauma-facing, or have high trauma-facing populations, so, like, education, and nonprofits, and medical, and… policing, so it's not just… like, trauma, sometimes when people hear the word trauma, they think of, like, physical traumas, like, more medical, but it's psychological trauma, it's… coercive, overt, covert, all the things I caused… trauma, but it's not even just trauma, it's chronic stress, because chronic stress can show up the same way as traumatic stress. So, anyhow, today's episode… we're gonna go into a leadership mindset or shift around authority. So, how to hold authority, how to be in power without driving fear. So, essentially, we're gonna talk about how power and authority impacts the nervous system and how regulation from this role of authority allows leaders to maintain clarity, it helps leaders to have boundaries, it helps to provide direction without relying on fear-based practices, control-based practices, like, solely, only compliance-based practices.

Lauren Spigelmyer: So, what we need to know is that authority positions of power always activate the nervous system. The question is whether that activation of the nervous system is one that is positive or negative, because that means it's either safe or it's fear-based. So, I think about this a lot when I talk to educators about working with young children, especially kids that have been exposed to trauma. You are authoritarian role, but even your… body being bigger than their bodies, and you're kind of towering over them, and you're talking down to them. Even if it's not a moment where there's, like, tension or disagreement. You're just following them and, like, looking down and talking to them. That activates the nervous system in a negative way on a micro level, not enough that you can maybe see. But the body is saying, like, psychologically, wow, that person's up there very high, they are physically above me, therefore they are, like, over me, that is authority, that is control, that is power. Even if it's not necessarily negative, because that's how the body reads it, that's how the subconscious reads it. So, like, I talk about, when you're working with kids who have been exposed to trauma, and this applies to any human being, really, I encourage people to get down to the student's or child's level, like, eye-to-eye, or even beneath their level, so that they have a little bit of, like, a power-height differential. But it's instilling fear, even if the language and body language isn't fear-oriented. So, that's just an example of how psychologically, on a more subconscious level, the… full authority, whether it's, like, seen, noticed, felt, physical, it's… it's driving a response from the nervous system, and we want it to be a good… a good response, because ultimately, authority is not neutral. Like, it never is. It's either safe or unsafe. It's either safe or driving fear. But… what you also need to know is that most of us are governed by policies, whether it's internal or external policies, whether it's corporate, education, nonprofit, whatever it is. But you know what matters more than policy? What's going to impact the workplace culture and well-being more than policy and, like, negative policy and policies we don't like? Leadership presence. And does that drive safety or fear? Ultimately, your, like, fear-based leadership models or approaches are going to not only cause short-term damage, they're going to cause significant long-term damage, which includes a lot of things we don't like, burnout, turnover, just, like, reputation, trust, all these things,

Lauren Spigelmyer: so… let's go into first why authority is always, like, almost like an event with the nervous system. Jessica and I talk a lot about, like, these little moments, and moments across time make meaning. So, as a person in leadership who has authority, who has power, Your interactions with people create moments, and those moments create meaning. So when you come into a space remotely, physically, either or, people's subconscious, their nervous systems are already scanning for things. They're scanning for predictability, they're scanning for tone, body language, fairness, if there's rupture possibility, there might be repair done or not done. So people, ultimately, they aren't asking, like, do I agree or disagree with this rule, policy, change, whatever, they're saying, am I safe here? And not… they're not, like, actually asking, like, am I safe? But, like, on a subconscious, like, a logical level, they are. Even if, like, the change is, like, something that adds to their workload, that becomes unsafe if the way it's delivered isn't delivered in a way that the nervous system can handle it. So ultimately, what we need to know is that… if people don't feel psychologically safe around their leadership teams they will default to compliance, which doesn't sound like a bad thing, but we're gonna talk about why it can be in a second. They'll default to silence, which we do not want in our workplace, as much as we may think, like, silence is not a bad thing, silence is not a good thing. And it may ultimately lead to resistance. None of these things, feelings, behaviors, outcomes are sustainable. They're going to drive people to being unhappy, to leaving, to disrupt culture, all these kinds of things, so…Let's talk about how, how fear-based authority shows up. So let's talk about not-so-good nervous system impact first and then we'll talk about the other side of things. So, what does fear-based leadership look like? What does it sound like? You'll hear a lot of, like, because I said so. People would not be actually saying the words, because I said so, but their emails, their messages, their delivery, words similar are maybe not saying that exact thing, but they're sending that message. You'll hear a lot of, like, brushing people off of, like, we don't have time to discuss this. You'll see more public shaming, more public correction, which, ugh, makes me crawl inside my skin. Not a good thing. It's so patronizing, and it's not even appropriate for children. Also, you'll see a lot of surveillance that's really disguised as accountability, and I think this is a big one that we should pay attention to, because it could even be, like, it's actually very manipulative. So, it's like abuse of authority and power. So, I think a good example is, like, let's say you have coaches, and you're, suddenly asking your coaches to, like, submit their notes to you. If you're doing it to provide them positive feedback, or like, statistical analyzation, synthesis for data's sake to… to move things forward, that's one thing. But if you're doing it to, like, catch them, like, looking for a gotcha, not… not a good approach. Like, not… that is surveillance. You are… you are… maybe not… like, people think of surveillance, like, watching someone physically being there, cameras. Surveillance can be a lot of things. It can be having people take notes, submitting things, and again, those things can be okay, it just depends what's the purpose, how we're using it, and if you're using it to catch people, then it's surveillance.

Lauren Spigelmyer: So… so why would people even do this? Well, it could be their own insecurity, it could be their own self-esteem, but a lot of times it's because… a lot of times, it's because leaders are under pressure to perform, or they lose their leadership position. Like, that's pretty normal. So, how people under them perform or produce affects how they look, and that either makes the pressure better or worse. Also, in that position, like, you are in a power position, and you do have some, if not a lot, of power and control. And by reigning control over people, this is especially true with children, it… it feels faster and it feels easier than taking the time to actually create connection and move from a more regulated, connection-based, relationship-based leadership role, position. I mean, even with kids, like, I'm gonna go on a little bit of side tangent here, but, like, if you have children, you raise children, my own personal philosophy and belief is, like, not just to rein authority over them. Like, I'm never saying to them, because I'm the adult, because I said so. Because, frankly, that's bullshit. Like, would you like to be talked to like that? Like, if you don't have respect for your children, why would they ever have respect for you? I'm really a big believer, like, respect begets respect, so for me in, you know, feeling disrespected of my child, I'm… I'm… taking that as a sign of, like, they're learning to do that, and my response isn't going to be something that is disrespectful back. It's going to be teaching them how to have empathy, and how to learn the skill of respect, and how to change their behavior for next time. It's going to be educating them instead of shaming them, because shaming them doesn't get me anywhere, but educating them to make a different choice does. So, when I watch different types of parenting, I'm always with no judgment, but I definitely am… get cringey sometimes when I see some things, and we're not perfect. I, myself, am not perfect in my parenting. I'm aware of that. But I do try and go back and do repair. I do try and make sure that when I rupture, I don't do it again by, like, taking some time to, like, personally reflect and walk through, and make sure that it's not just about control for me, that it's about respect and raising good children who are independent and thinkers and individuals, versus just reigning control over them, because it feels fast and easy. So, okay, coming back off my tangent. A short-term results of… fear-based power… negative power-based authority. You… you are gonna get more compliance. You are going to get more obedience, but that's not a good thing in this situation, because just because someone is complying because they feel… feel fearful means they are staying in fear. If they are staying in fear, their nervous system is staying dysregulated. If you are staying dysregulated while you're working or while you're in the workplace that is not sustainable. Like, it's not only gonna eat away at your immune system, it's gonna…your mind and your soul. So we want people to comply, and people to be obedient, because they respect us, and they have a really strong rapport with us, not because they fear us. If you look back at the, like, research or history, not to go off another parenting tangent, but children who were raised by parents who were, like, fear-based parents, who were super compliant and very obedient, the outcomes of them long-term, in terms of, like, psychology and how they show up in the world, is not positive. What is positive is when you have kids who comply and are obedient because their parents respected them and they respect their parents. Another short-term result is you will hear more… things will get quieter, and things will… people will be silent, because they'll be afraid to speak up, they'll be afraid to challenge anything, they'll be afraid to bring ideas to the table. They just won't talk. And I felt this in my own organization, where there was kind of, like, surveillance through micromanagement, so not my own organization, not us in Five Ives, but, like, in an organization I used to work for. There was a lot of micromanagement from leadership, and there was constant decision-making that would, like, change up our systems, and it started off where, like, people were sharing a lot of resources, and it was a newer… entity within the organization. So, a lot of people are sharing their… their resources, and… they were… they were good resources, but leadership ultimately felt that, like, too many people were creating their own things, or too many people were doing their own things, and became a little bit wild. So, instead of modifying or adapting to allow people to still share or create or, you know, kind of collaboratively work together or, you know, work as a team. It was like, we're done creating, we're not doing this anymore, and it got really quiet. People stopped sharing things. And even when people had good things, they weren't shared. At least not openly, because the leadership style prevented that from happening again. You will see reduced conflict initially, but again, it's because people fear speaking up. And we don't want people to be in an organization where they just are, like, threat-based, fear-based, and don't want to speak up because they don't want to rock the boat, because they don't want to do anything wrong, because living on eggshells like that… not sustainable, doesn't feel good, definitely not healthy, a little bit emotionally abusive.

Lauren Spigelmyer: Okay, so those are not fun short-term results, what's the long-term cost? People are gonna lose their soul in your organization. They are not gonna stay. No amount of money is going to make someone stay… I mean, they might stay for a while, but eventually they are gonna burn out. They're gonna become disengaged. People are gonna leave, they're gonna quietly quit. They might show up to work, they might be absent from work, they might take mental health days, there's definitely an erosion of trust. I mean, it eats away at your culture, and if not even, like, a subculture, the subculture gets ruined, and then it starts to impact the larger culture, so… not good. Nothing really good comes from fear-based compliance and fear-based leadership. It does create order, like, fear creates order, but it's regulation that creates stability and, like, fulfillment in your organization. I mean, I think about, like, history, and you've got some leaders globally that were fear-based, control-based leaders, and people were obedient to them because they were scared of them, but those people were not regulated. And ultimately, they didn't last in the leadership positions, because it wasn't stable. Okay, moving on. Ugh, what is regulated authority? Because I think sometimes people will associate someone being regulated as being calm, and calm as being soft, and those are not the same things. There's a very important distinction here. Regulation doesn't mean that people are, like, permissive, and… Regulation means that there's this, like, neutral, maybe even calming presence and that actually really strengthens the authority. It doesn't weaken it, even though people think that it will weaken it, or some bits of, like, vulnerability, not oversharing, but, like, some vulnerability can create more strength and people often don't share because they feel like it makes them look weak. When you are a person who knows how to regulate your nervous system, your emotions, you will have more access to your thinking brain, and when you have more access to your thinking brain and you can stay in your thinking brain more, you will send out clearer expectations, because you'll be able to think more rationally, and you'll speak with a calmer tone and softer body language, and you'll have more consistent follow-through, because you'll actually remember to have follow-through, and you'll actually have better systems in place, and you'll be able to hold boundaries without escalation. I think about, like, the times where I was, like, in super survival mode, like, where I needed to do things, I was so disorganized, like… collect evidence. My organizational systems for collecting evidence were a nightmare, because I was in survival, I was nervous system dysregulated. Even if outwardly I looked super regulated, my internal state was super dysregulated. So, I was not in my thinking brain, I was acting fully out of my emotional brain, and tasks that I needed to do for work or personal life, whatever, were chaotic and disorganized and a mess. Like, I… nothing… and I had a really tough time figuring out how to… to do it. It wasn't that I didn't have the skill. It's that I couldn't access the skill, because I was in survival state, because I was so dysregulated. So, thinking about when you are regulated, it clears up the space in your brain to work better, to get better results.

Lauren Spigelmyer: Okay. Presence. Really, leadership is the policy, or it will definitely, like, override the policy that we don't like. Staff, even if they don't like things that are coming down the pipe, they will take cues from leadership, they will look, again, not consciously, though some may be consciously, but probably more subconsciously, at people's body language, at their posture, at their facial expressions, at their, like, emotional pacing, their tone of voice and they can even just, like, again, subconscious, but, like, your body can read the hypervigilance, the hypersensitivity, can read, like, I can be dysregulated and talk really fast because I'm dysregulated in… like, an overwhelmed state, or I can be dysregulated and talk really fast because I'm really excited. Both are forms of dysregulation, but, like, one is more positive, one is more negative. Someone can subconsciously read, If the dysregulation is negative or positive, it's, like, stress-based or it's, like, excitement-based, just from, like, tiny little cues up and down your body, again, the facial, the body posture, the tone, the emotional pacing, all those things send messages to staff about, you know, what's changing and how the leadership feels about it. And how they're handling it, and how they're going to, kind of, release it to staff. There's nothing that you can do with your policies or your system that is going to, like, correct or fix a dysregulated system, whether that's, like, leadership, individuals, leadership and individuals. You have to fix the regulation problem first. Like I said, some policies have to change. Like, there's a lot of external policy we don't have control over, even internal policy we might not have a lot of control over, but how we communicate that, not only, like, how we feel about it, but, like, how we share the message of the changing policy, or policy, it could be systems, whatever it is. If they are presented to staff from a place of urgency, frustration, dislike, fear, annoyance, that's how staff is going to receive them, because staff's nervous system are going to become dysregulated because leadership's presentation of and our systems are dysregulated. So even if you don't like the policy thinking about, or the system that we're changing, we need to deliver news, you don't think it will be received well, like, how do you get your place… how do you get your body into a place, your mind into a place of, like, okay, this isn't awesome, but also, like, this has to happen, so how can I get to a place where, when I'm, like, sending the message, I'm maybe softening the blow a little bit and being realistic and being honest, but, like, not… presenting it in such a way that, like, we can't even get off the ground, because I have been so frustrated or annoyed by it that I… voice that in my sharing of it, and it's already not received well. Like, let's not start off on a bad foot.

Lauren Spigelmyer: Okay, so… Let's talk about one practical tool here. Before you respond… In a heated moment. We want to try and pause and ask ourselves, and maybe you're doing this about policy or systems that are changing, Ask yourself these questions. Am I trying to restore Control, or get control Or am I trying to restore safety? Maybe a better way to ask that is, am I trying to get control, or keep control, or am I trying to restore safety? This is a good one. Is my tone… Aligned with my intent. Would I, as the leader, want to receive this message the way I am about to deliver it? Okay, if you ask those three questions, that should clear it all up for you. That should help you get a little bit more regulated before you have to deliver the thing you don't really want to deliver. But even if you don't ask yourself the questions, even if you just pause, the pause alone will help you to get a bit more regulated before you release. So regulate before you release.

Lauren Spigelmyer: Okay. Let's… talk about what's coming next. So we just walked through, like, how does power and control and authority impact the nervous system? What does that… what are the results of that? What are the costs of that, you know, short-term and long-term? What does it kind of look like? What does it feel like? What does it do? What is coming next? There are going to be ruptures. There are going to be moments where you did not ask yourself the questions, and you did not pause, and both caused you to deliver something unpleasantly. You're going to need to do some repair work. So, in the next few episodes, we are going to move into kind of why even regulated leadership, even regulated leaders who know how to regulate well, they're going to get it wrong sometimes because we're human. And when they do, and when we do, the most important thing that we can do isn't try and regain control, it's to repair. So that is what is coming next.

Lauren Spigelmyer: Alright, if you want to learn more about any of this, or you want to dig deeper into any of it, this is the work that Jessica and I do at Five Ives, and we created a whole program for entities like education, medical, nonprofit, policing, really corporate, anyone. This applies to every single organization trauma-facing or not, but it's called the Staff Sustainability Program because it is designed to work on wellness, culture, kind of the things that are tearing the organization apart, causing people to leave, but also causing reduced productivity and reduced outcomes. You're not hitting your targets. This program will coach leadership and frontline staff into a more sustainable system. If you want to learn about that, go to FiveIves.com, F-I-V-E-I-V-E-S, and then go to our services page. It's the first tab on the services page. But! If you want to learn more about some of these things from, like, an educational standpoint, we're launching… not launching, it's been launched, we're relaunching. We are hosting a course in late January, in partnership with the University of Pennsylvania, where you can get 4.5 graduate-level credits from the university to move through this program with us. So, it is just a semester-long course, and it's a hybrid course. It's a little bit online, a little bit per… not in person, but live, and it's called the Behavior Breakthrough Program. So, it is based on dealing with behaviors in the classroom, classroom management, behavior management, and also teacher burnout prevention. That is also on the website. If you go to the main page, it's at the bottom, under the on-demand resources. And don't forget to, like, actually do something with today's information. So maybe it's sharing the episode with somebody else, and talking to them about it. Maybe it's thinking about how this impacts you in your role, and what they're gonna change, like, what's one little tiny micro change you can add, even if it's just that pause and don't forget to let us know in the comments. What do you think? What have you changed? What are you gonna change? We'll hold you accountable. Until next episode, I am Lauren Spigelmyer. Pleasure to have you. Thanks for joining us. Well, me.


Categories: : Regulation Strategies

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